The number one question I get from creators is some version of this: "How big does my audience need to be before a brand will actually work with me?"

I was on a podcast recently where the hosts asked me that exact question. And my answer still surprises people every time I say it.

Zero. You don't need any following at all.

But — and this is where most creators get stuck — you do need to change what you pitch.

The Sponsorship Continuum

Here's the mistake creators make when they're starting out. They have 200 views per episode, and they reach out to a brand and say, "Hey, let me talk about you on my podcast." The brand pulls up the page, sees the numbers, and passes. Of course they do.

But what if instead of pitching your platform, you pitched your expertise?

Go do a holistic audit of that brand's online presence. Do they have a YouTube channel? Is it updated? Does the content suck? Do they have a podcast? Are they posting on LinkedIn? Then come back to them and say: "I think you could be telling your brand story in a much more compelling way. I'd love to create content for you on autopilot — you can put it on your blog, your YouTube, your social. I'll start a podcast for you. I'll interview people on your team, or people in the industry you care about. $7,500 a month and you don't have to lift a finger. And by the way, go check out my podcast — that's my portfolio."

Completely different conversation.

That's what I call the sponsorship continuum. When you're small, what you pitch is content creation and consulting — done-for-you work that stands on its own merit. As your audience grows, you layer in some syndication on your platforms. Once you're getting tens of thousands of eyes? Then the pitch shifts to "let me talk about you on my channels." That's when the reach starts moving the needle.

The liberation in this framing is that there's no arbitrary threshold you have to hit before you're "allowed" to approach brands. You just have to change what you offer based on where you are.

Stop Sitting Alone in a Room Guessing

One of the worst things you can do when building a pitch list is brainstorm alone. Oh, I love this mic. Oh, I drink kombucha. My audience probably does too, right?

Wrong. That's how sponsorships fail — because you assume your personal preferences map onto your audience's.

The better move is to involve your audience directly. Survey them. Ask what's keeping them up at night, what tools and products they're using and loving right now, what challenges they're facing. The data that comes back will shock you. You'll find out that 40% of your listeners run brick-and-mortar businesses when you thought you were talking to internet entrepreneurs. Now you've got a pitch for a staffing agency or a training platform that your audience actually needs.

And here's the kicker: when you do land that deal, you can tell the brand, "We surveyed our audience. 40% said they're dealing with exactly the problem your product solves. We went out and found you specifically for them." That pitch lands in a completely different way than "would you like to sponsor our podcast?"

The ARC Framework: Why Your Pricing Has to Change

Before you quote any number to any brand, you need to know one thing: what does success look like to them?

Every brand has a goal that falls into one of three buckets. Awareness — they're launching something new, entering a new market, trying to spread the word. Repurposing — they want rights to the content you create to run as paid ads. Conversion — they want sales, leads, trial sign-ups, something measurable.

Here's why this matters to your pricing.

A conversion-focused brand is doing math in their head. They know your average downloads, they estimate click-through and trial conversion rates, they calculate lifetime value, and they back into the maximum they'll pay you. If the math puts your ceiling at $5,000, they're not going to pay $5,000 — that's their breakeven. They want a profit. Your negotiating leverage here is tight.

But an awareness-focused campaign? Their KPIs are squishy. Impressions, engagement, excitement. Their boss isn't breathing down their neck demanding a specific number of sales. Your negotiating leverage skyrockets. You could charge three or four times more for the same five ad reads, purely because of what the brand is trying to accomplish.

This is why a rate card on your website is actively hurting you. You're letting brands compare you on price before you've had a chance to understand what they actually need. Ask the question first. Always.

The ROPE Pitch Method

When you're ready to do outbound — to actually go reach out to brands instead of waiting for them — here's the framework I use. I call it ROPE.

R is relevant. Your pitch has to connect to something the brand is already doing or has done recently. Pull up their website, their LinkedIn, their YouTube. What campaigns have they run? What problems are they trying to solve publicly?

O is organic. Tie your pitch back to content you've already published that shows your audience has existing affinity for their product or category. If that content doesn't exist yet — make it. Record the episode, publish the post. It serves your audience anyway, and now you have something concrete to point to when you pitch.

P is proof. Show how you've helped other brands achieve results. A case study, a testimonial, specific numbers if you have them.

E is easy to execute. Pitch something specific, not "we'd love to find a way to collaborate." Give them a concrete deliverable, a timeline, a next step. End with a direct ask: "Are you free Thursday at 10AM?"

I actually did a live version of this on the podcast. The hosts mentioned they use a sales dialer called Nooks. We pulled up their website in real time and I gave them two pitch angles on the spot: one around creating a case study since Nooks leads with social proof on their homepage, and one around hosting an in-person event since they'd done one in Denver the previous year and hadn't done another since.

Compare that to "hey, we love your tool, would you like to sponsor our podcast?" It's a completely different conversation.

The Discovery Call Formula

When you do get a brand on a call, don't spend the first ten minutes talking about yourself. Your follower count, your demographics, your downloads — they can find most of that themselves. What they can't find is what you're about to do.

Ask them questions.

Why are you running this campaign? What challenges have you been facing? Have you worked with creators before — how did it go, and if it didn't go well, why not? Are you dealing with supply chain issues? Tariff pressure? Do you consider yourselves the market leader or are you fighting for market share?

Brands don't have random piles of money sitting around to give to random creators. They have budgets already allocated to specific initiatives. Your entire job on that call is to figure out what those initiatives are and convince them that you are the most efficient way to move the needle on the thing they're already trying to do.

And when the call ends — don't spit out a number on the spot. Tell them you'll put together a custom proposal with three to four packages at different investment levels. Then ask: "Do you have a sense of where I should set those tiers from a budget feasibility perspective?" Then shut up.

75% of the time, they'll tell you the range. Not because they want to — because they're managing multiple partners and trying to Tetris a budget together, and options make their life easier. Give them options. Hit singles and doubles. Not every deal has to be a home run.

After You Close: Don't Go Dark

Getting the deal is not the finish line. What kills long-term relationships — and the recurring revenue that comes with them — is what most creators do after they invoice: disappear.

They're terrified to ask the brand "how did it go?" because they're scared the brand will say they hated it.

Here's how I think about it. There are only two outcomes when you ask that question. Either it went great, and you pitch them the next opportunity immediately. Or it went okay, and the brand gives you information you can actually use to iterate — a different angle to try, an objection you didn't address, a campaign brief they got wrong on their end. I once asked a brand this question and they said, "Oh god, thank you for asking. We actually sent you the wrong brief." We ran it back with a better brief and the next campaign crushed.

Even negative comments from your audience are gold. Collect them. Bring them back to the brand. Tell them what you're hearing in the market and offer to address those objections directly in the next integration. Now you're not just a creator — you're a market intelligence asset. That's someone they keep on the roster.

The creators who build sustainable sponsorship businesses aren't the ones with the biggest audiences. They're the ones who treat every deal like the beginning of something longer.

Screw what's normal. Start treating your sponsorships like a service — to your brand partners, and to the audience you're genuinely trying to help.

If you want the full framework — the eight-step sponsorship wheel, the ROPE method, the ARC framework, all of it — grab Sponsor Magnet. And if you want to work through your actual deals with a coach, Wizard's Guild is where we do that.

What's the brand you've been sitting on pitching because you think your audience isn't big enough yet?